AIC Archives announcement

[Borthran]

I just received an email from the AIC webmaster, and, well I guess you can just read it for yourself.

FROM: Webmaster [webmaster@aicanime.com]
TO: bobn64@hotmail.com
SUBJECT: Initial warning from official AIC English website

Dear Mr. Robert Klemens,

Thank you for your contributions to the official AIC website and online forums. Alas, we have received many complaints about the "copied" AIC official website, especially from former online forum users. Please remember that all material from the official AIC website is legally protected and any copy or modification would be a breach of international copyright laws.

Please remove the incriminating parts of your website and delete all user information as soon as possible before we are forced to take further legal action.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Regards
--
Webmaster <webmaster@aicanime.com>

Because of this, the AIC archives are now offline.? However, as far as I know, the posts and any "personal information" that remains in the archives are public knowledge.? The archives were made by a bot that wasn't signed in, and thus any information it got was available to the public.? In addition, AIC used YaBB, an open source forum, which states in its Terms of Usage that no posts may be copyrighted; that all posted material is in the public domain.? The only argument that can be made is for the AIC images and the layout of the AIC main page which is also included in the archive, as they actually do own those things.? Former members have no claim to their posts, and even if they did, their names are cited with every post.? In addition to all that, no profiles were saved in the archive, so no personal information is even available, other than maybe email or AIM names, which were already public.? I realize that AIC said that the data would not be given to any third parties, and AIC held true to that by not giving out any of the database.? This archive was made by accessing the site via the public internet, and I believe we are completely within our rights to do so.
All that said, I have chosen to take the archives offline until further notice, as they do have a valid claim on the images and main pages, and I do not have time to remove them.? I will be replying to AIC regarding this matter shortly as well, and any correspondence will be posted here for public viewing as well.
Next, I would like to ask who among us would complain to AIC about the archive?? This site was basically formed to carry on when AIC abandoned its community, and now someone has the audacity to thwart our efforts to keep a record of years of our online history.? And to complain to AIC directly, when I am clearly the maintainer of this website?? Trying to go over my head for something that I have (almost) every right to do?? The archives may or may not return, depending upon my further review of the situation.
And finally, it's painfully obvious that whoever complained has visited this section of the forum at least once, as this is the only place where its address was posted.? If you have a problem with the archives existing, please feel free to send me an email.? My address is posted all over the place, and in case you are too lazy, its bobn64@hotmail.com.? So I implore you, either send me email directly about this situation, or do not send email at all.? AIC has no authority over this domain, other than its copyrighted images and layout, so don't expect them to use authority to get your old posts offline again.  I will work with AIC to stay within copyright law, but I will not delete it all for some disgruntled members.

[Strannik]

Well, this officially blows.

You know, this might not be an actual member. I mean, how do we know the compaint wasn't made by some spammer who clamied he was a former AIC BBS member. I doubt even the AIC webmaster could keep track of every single person who ever posted on the forums.

You know, this little notice came shortly after the mysterious board troubles. Coincidence?

[Borthran]

Well, the other problems seemed like a fluke, according to the host anyways.. so it seems like a coincidence

[Grate Saiyaman]

If it was as serious as they make it out to be I would be expecting a registered letter from Japan, on AIC's company letterhead.
I know a number of people that can forge e-mail addresses. I've even gotten official looking e-mails from the "support team" @mahoromatic.net  . . . considering that I'm the only person that  runs my website I was rather amused at finding out I had a support team.
BUT
. . . you probably already thought about that kind of stuff too . . . 

I think it's not just a coincedence that you got that notice . . .
I doubt it has much to do with the "tech" troubles  . . . 

I just wonder if there's an insidiously "evil" plot being cooked up by "some bone-head" "someplace".

[Borthran]

Actually it hadnt crossed my mind that it could be forged
But I checked the header and it includes

Received: from mx1.a-i-c.co.jp ([220.109.211.162]) by mc4-f32.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824);
    Fri, 22 Oct 2004 02:03:06 -0700
Received: (qmail 69210 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2004 18:03:05 +0900
Received: from tsunami.a-i-c.co.jp (HELO gateway.a-i-c.co.jp) (220.109.211.166)
  by 0 with SMTP; 22 Oct 2004 18:03:05 +0900
Received: (qmail 36906 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2004 18:03:05 +0900
Received: from unknown (HELO aicdgtsv.digital.a-i-c.co.jp) (192.168.10.10)
  by 0 with SMTP; 22 Oct 2004 18:03:05 +0900
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pcnwk105b.digital.a-i-c.co.jp [192.168.10.155]) by aicdgtsv.digital.a-i-c.co.jp with SMTP

So I assume that it actually did come from AIC.
I do have access logs of anyone who accessed any parts of the site, so if I wanted to go through them I could narrow it down to what IP addresses could theoretically have complained (and if AIC actually ever looked at it).  I just really dont want to bother with all that comparison stuff of IPs and usernames and guests and stuff.  I have the archives on my computer, as I would guess most people who want it do, so I am personally not really affected by it all.. but it was nice to have it there that I could see if I were at home too or something.

[Grate Saiyaman]

Yup

[Borthran]

Dear AIC Webmaster,

Thank you for bringing the offending materials to my attention.  The entire
"copied" AIC official website, including the archived forums, have been
taken offline.
However, despite the fact that the site was hosted on AIC servers, and
that the posts were made by numerous individuals, the Terms of Service
stated at the time of registration to the AIC forums did not state that any
posts shall become the copyright property of AIC, and thus fall into the
default public domain.  Hence, AIC has no claim to the actual text of the
archived forum.  I also understand that AIC said that the database and
forum would be stored elsewhere, and not distributed to third parties,
such as myself.  AIC held its word in that case, as AIC did not distribute
the data to me, it was browsed by an internet bot, and then saved to disk.
This bot was not signed in, nor did it save any profile information about
the users, and thus it did not save any personal information, other than the
information stated in the posts, such as email addresses, usernames, and
messenger aliases.  But again, all of this was open to the public internet,
and is hence public domain information.
As far as actual copyright infringement, I recognize that AIC does own
the copyrights to many items that were also included in the "copied"
AIC official website, including the design of the front page, and all images
that belong to AIC.  It was for this reason that I removed the archived
site.  I do not wish to engage in a legal battle over this.  I respect AIC's
copyrights, and the rights they have therein.
All that said, at some point in the future, I may decide to put the "copied"
AIC fan forums back online, but in an altered state, so as not to infringe
on the copyrights held by AIC.  That is only a possibility, and may not
indeed happen at all.
I do not see the need to delete all user information as soon as possible,
however, as that information is public knowledge, as determined by
the users when they chose to disclose it in their account information.
The point for "copying" the AIC official website is because many
members have posted a lot of information, and memories, on the AIC
fan forums, and then, because of an apparent policy change, the forums
were to disappear from the internet forever.  We backed this information
up in the easiest way for us, in order to save those memories and useful
information.  Some former members apparently believe that they have
the right to have their posts or personal information removed from this
copy, claiming copyright infringement.  There are no copyrights on the
posts or personal information, and any removal of them would be
strictly out of courtesy.  However, I do not see any harm in having these
posts saved in an archive for the sole purpose of referencing past posts,
and hence I will not remove them without other cause.
I will reiterate that the archive is not currently online, and will likely
not
come back online for quite some time.
Also, if at any point in the future I do opt to put the "copied" website
back online, it will be without the copy of the AIC home page and
without any images owned by AIC appearing within the forum.  I will
also contact you again at that time to determine if AIC objects to the
content that will be publicly available from that time forward.
I apologize for this trouble, but I believe I am in the right to have the
forum's content saved and accessible to the internet.  I understand
all claims of copyright to the site layout, design, and images, and I will
be more than happy to remove them if the archive is ever put back
online.

Thank you for understanding

Regards
Webmaster, Seidou.org <bobn64@hotmail.com>


----- Original Message -----
<and so forth>

[The Lonely Moon]

Rawr!

I just wonder if there's an insidiously "evil" plot being cooked up by "some bone-head" "someplace".

Hah, you know, we could all make speculations as to whom would do something like that...but that would unfair of us, now wouldn't it? 



I liked your reply message, Bob. You were to the point but still respectful.

I really do not see what the big deal is, though I can understand the design on the front page and AIC images.
*shrug*

[Grate Saiyaman]

Kudos Bob, I think that was great.

It still seems silly that someone would get bent about this  . . .
*sigh*

[Dan]

Interestingly, or not, there is no concept of the public domain in Japanese copyright law, but the archive was for non-commerical use.  Oh, do not mind me... I can be a pedantic bastard. XD

[Borthran]

But is there a concept of public domain in international copyright law?  Because that is what would apply in this case, being a matter between countries.  I think.
I seem to remember something about anything posted in YaBB being public domain (ie the host nor the users can claim the copyrights) in its License Agreement, although I browsed through it and I couldnt find anything.. maybe Im thinking of something else.  I think the fact that it is freeware may imply a clause about copyrights too.
But in any case, the copyrights do not belong to the users who posted the messages, and as they are the ones who seem to be really complaining, they are just out of luck..  As I stated earlier, if they only wanted their information removed, I would have obliged to the best of my ability, just out of courtesy (removing personal information or personal posts).  But as contacting me directly was too much trouble, and I do not think I would extend that courtesy to the users involved now or in the future.

[The Maintenance Man]

You win some??? you lose some. 

[ZERO-Ryoko]

Oh my.... O_O

Your replies are always so smart

*huggles Bobbay*

[AstroNerdBoy]

Can material no longer on the AIC website be considered material from the AIC website?

Alas, we have received many complaints about the "copied" AIC official website, especially from former online forum users.

Eh?? I'm wondering who all of these 'many' are.? This sounded like a big huge steaming pile of <censored>.?

Ironically enough, my Tenchi Muyo! FAQ site started off as a guide for the AIC BBS and a Tenchi FAQ ( Death Quaker's hard work started it ).? So there's a lot of information that was taken from the AIC website.? Of course today, information has been taken from numurous BBS postings from credible sources.

I wonder if AIC will receive many complaints about me as well...

[AngelKnightRay]

I'm pretty sure this is a ploy by someone. Naming names, I shall not. The only way AIC would've even bothered contacting us is if someone had informed them even though they fail to realize that since the BBS is/was public they have no right to act as if all of the stuff there was original or theirs <_< I'm pretty sure it says in the TOS for the BBS that all information is public and may not be used for certain reasons blah blah blah and all that jazz.